NYC vs. LA

[Lily]

yes, but isn't everyone a writer-director-producer on some level, if not on the surface, then deep down in the bowls, biding it's time, waiting for an appropriate and conspicuous moment to spring free?

 

[Winterreverie]

amen.

 

[Yannovitch]

Hello

I'm new here ...
I'm not studying cinema today, in fact, now, I study Electronical and Computer Engineering in France, country where I live.
However, in the same time, I have bought audio and film equipment, and I'm producing some singers and bands, and I've wrote two script.

After having completed my degree in Electronics and Computer Engineering, I want to come in America to graduate from Tisch, UCLA or Columbia with a production/direction MFA, because the course in US give more opportunities to work that the french "école d'ingénieur".

I've some questions for you :

What's the more "international" school ?
The most recognised all over the world, with a big alumni network ? It's the main reason for why I want to graduate from one of this school so ...
What's the school with the best equipment ?
Can student easily access to this equipment ?
I've see that in UCLA the student must pay because the project are self produced. Am I right ? The school doesn't give money to their student ? Is it the same in Tisch ?

And finally, what's the school where I can easily take course in screenwriting and traditionnal/3d animation too, or why not, earn a dual degree ?

Thanks, and excuse me for the mistakes, I'm not an english native speaker ...

 

[yc1911]

Hi Yannovitch, I'm currently a CS graduate student, heading for USC Production MFA next year. If you want to do animation, I recommend CalArts. If you want to create films with special effects, USC has the best digital facility and strong CG/Multimedia research team in Viterbi and ETC. If you want to learn screenwriting, any film school has it as core program.

 

[Lily]

Hi Yannovitch,

All of these schools foster international students.

As for the money to produce films-this is the same at all these schools-ALL STUDENTS PAY FOR THEIR OWN FILMS.

With one exception I know of, and that is AFI.

Hope this helps.

 

[Yannovitch]

Hi yc1911, hi Lily, thank you for your quick answer

As for the money to produce films-this is the same at all these schools-ALL STUDENTS PAY FOR THEIR OWN FILMS.

Aaaah that sucks ... But if the industry is more imbricated with the university than in France it can be not so bad

Can I ask you what's the real importance of the materials you give with your application ?

Because my problem is that producing good film to give good materials cost a lot of money.
I want to go in a renowned university (which cost me the price of a RED cam ) because the alumni network will allow me to refund all my money enough fastly ...
But if I must pay for the camera, the light, the Avid, ... when I'm student, that begin to make a lot of money !!

yc1911, I want to learn how to make a film and to have the ability to fully understand and critisize what will say me my CG director and my sound engineer
I'm not good enough to think I can do purely animation, I can say to the other what I imagine . But I think I'm smart enough to write some code as a CG technician .

I begin to think I will try to go in UCLA or USC.
Can I ask you : UCLA vs USC ? What's the +/- in this two university for someone who wants to learn to be a producer/director ...

And does any university in US offer a dual degree in CG/Filmmaking ?

So, it's midnight here, I'm going to sleep ... or maybe CSI ?

 

[Lily]

The schools DO provide the equipment, cameras, grip packages, soundstages, lighting and even actors... but beyond that production costs are up to the students.

So in that case, they do provide a lot of $$$ in the form of equipment.

 

[yc1911]

I believe you have the ability to master the technical skill, but CG is not only about coding. Quite a lot of those technicians have physics,or math, or CS PhD degree, and devote their life-long career in visual effect. And this is only the digital visual effect, not including traditional special effect like explosion, fighting,...,etc. If you are interested in VFX, As I know, there are many prestigious professional VFX school in Canada and New Zealand. USC Viterbi offers game develop and 3D-animation program -- I believe they emphasis on the tech side rather than artistic side.

Film-making consists of a series of professional work. Anyone who pays for the budget can do whatever they want in film. Yannovitch, I'm certain that you have your talent and you are potential enough to achieve whatever you want in film production. But make sure to determine first in which part of film production you want to participate professionally, 'cause, out of the school, you have to compete with those highly professionals in every field. Cheers!

 

[Winterreverie]

Chapman produces their students films... and the students keep all the rights

 

[Jayimess]

In response to your question,

"Can I ask you what's the real importance of the materials you give with your application ?"

That's an easy one.

Good grades and test scores don't show your creative side anymore than poor grades and low test scores do.

Are the grades and scores a factor?

Of course.

But the creative materials show them what kind of artist you want to be, the stories you want to tell.

 

[Yannovitch]

Chapman produces their students films... and the students keep all the rights

The schools DO provide the equipment, cameras, grip packages, soundstages, lighting and even actors... but beyond that production costs are up to the students.

Thank you Lily and Winterreverie ( does it mean "rêverie d'hiver" ? It's a beautiful name )
Yeah it becomes more interesting ... I will see what Chapman purpose ...
Is it an internationaly recognized university in the cinema domain?
I mean that does this university have a good network of alumni ?

Anyone who pays for the budget can do whatever they want in film.

MMhhh, did I say that it's me, and only me, who pay for my study

Are the grades and scores a factor?

Of course.

But the creative materials show them what kind of artist you want to be, the stories you want to tell.

Thank you Jayimess, you have perfectly understood my question. That's what I wanted to know.

yc1911, when you speak about school in NZ and Canada, which school is in your mind ?
Do you think of this ?
http://www.cs.otago.ac.nz/graphics/homepage.html
I've seen that USC do his master in Computer Graphics online :
http://den.usc.edu/programs/cs/mscsmc.htm
It can be an idea ( but with a very big amount of work) to do in the same time the MFA and the distance learning MS

 

[yc1911]

These are CG-related research teams I know in USC: Viterbi ITP, rendering, animation, multimedia. I heard about NZ and Canada from others and the press, but never researched into it myself. Sorry. Try some CG magazines, awn.com or vfxworld.com . As for DEN, I don't know the loading; you may try.

I hope I could give you more information, but I can't. I'm only a probie, too, trying something new and with no idea where such multidisciplinary training would lead me to. One thing for sure -- I come to film school for storytelling rather than technical skill. I plan to endeavor in screen-writing and directing while keeping connected to new digital tech in my spare time. In a humble hope to catch up the trend one day when tech, once again, changes the art of filming. That's why I choose USC, for art and craft.

There are still some other great schools well-known for different aspects. Choose only after your goal of career is clear. Follow the bliss and have fun!

Oh~ Why not try French film school? They are good, aren't they?

 

[Yannovitch]

Hello yc1911, thank you ! I find here all what I need to know
Sure the French film school is good, surely as good if not more than the US school, but a "population of 60 million" country and a "300,000,000 people" country have not the same economy ... In France, even with a degree of the better school : ENSLL ( http://www.ens-louis-lumiere.fr/ ) and FEMIS ( http://www.lafemis.fr/index.php?rub=1&srub=11 ) , it's really hard to begin in the world of cinema in France.
Moreover, the cursus is more specialized than in US/UK, and I want a more general formation.
I think I will try in my CS formation to more focus on CG (even if I'm actually more in the cyber security ) before graduate in Filmmaking, my goal is to have a perfect understanding of the art AND the technics.

Which school can respect this condition, do you think ?
Can you compare USC and UCLA ? Because UCLA is public so it cost less ...
Which school is the more traditionnal school, and which has the more "experimental" type of learning ?
Which has the best library, and the best equipment for the student ?
What's the MFA where I can without too many problem of petition have some additional course in CG, ... ?
I've found a beginning of answer here :http://forums.awn.com/archive/index.php/t-2432.html but I've not found all the answer of my questions ...

 

[Yannovitch]

Up Up Up

 

[yc1911]

Yannovitch, I read those threads you provided. However, animation is not within my concentration -- more pleased to see flesh human beings in movies. What attracts me is VFX, such as the fantastic scenes in 300, Pan's Labyrinth, or those pieces done by ILM.

I DON'T expect ANY CG training in film school. I go there to sharp my storytelling talent, if any ha!, and to learn production craft in a efficient way. I'm just excited about the resource there in USC that at least allows some casual visits between film and engineering students. I plan to talk to CG faculty/student on my own. Maybe some collaboration if both sides feel needed..."maybe." I mean I wouldn't know if it works until I get there. For example, I know from Prof. Debevec's lecture in our lab that he did cooperate with faculty of USC SCA. I didn't ask him who s/he is and how was the project going, since I was still waiting for notification then. FYI, Debevec's paper has been used to create VFX scene in The Matrix, Spiderman2, Super Returns, etc. It's great to arrange some informal visits to his lab.

As a non-citizen, USA public schools don't cost me less. I, who is definitely not rich, pay for my tuition, too. It costs really a lot, but I believe my future worth more.

Some other schools' info? Or some more about CG in USC? Nope! Sorry. I know little about other programs, and I don't want to have too may pies in the air before my life in USC. You may as well contact the faculty yourself. Maybe they are looking for exactly someone with your background to join their projects.

I'm shocked as you mentioned that it's even harder to pursuit a film career in France. I thought France, or at least Europe, is the motherland of film where the market is mature and well-organized.

 

[Yannovitch]

Maybe they are looking for exactly someone with your background to join their projects.

Oh, you make me dreaming

Some other schools' info?

Yes, I've some other question, I hope I'm not boring you
Actually, I think I will send - as soon as my degree in CS will come to end - my application to Tisch, USC, UCLA, Chapman, and Columbia, so maybe I will be admitted in one of this university
But in my head my ranking of hope to be admitted is :
- UCLA
- USC
- Tisch
- Chapman
- Columbia,

UCLA being the first because it's a public school and it's a very renowned university in my country for example.
USC being the second because even if it's expensive it's an university who is very close to the industry
Tisch being before Chapman because ... NYC :love:
Chapman because they have good resources for student, and it begin to be renowned outside the US.

But now you say me that

As a non-citizen, USA public schools don't cost me less.

It's really interesting.
But if we compare, for a non US citizen, UCLA is around 30000$ a year with life expenses( http://www.gdnet.ucla.edu/gss/library/0708gradfees.pdf ) and USC is around 45000 $ a year (http://www.usc.edu/admission/graduate/private/docs/I20_Expenses_2007v2.pdf ), and 15000$ is not a little difference for me !

So what is the best school for an international student ?
Ah, oh, yes, I think, which school has the best TA/RA opportunities for international students ? Which school will be the less expensive ?

I'm shocked as you mentioned that it's even harder to pursuit a film career in France. I thought France, or at least Europe, is the motherland of film where the market is mature and well-organized.

loool
In France for one film in French who is distributed, you have 10, if not more, from USA/UK.
For one "more than one million per year" director, you have thousands of graduate of the best film french schools with less than 1200 eur ( = 1500$) per month.
For one little label of production who is created, 10 other close.
At TV, in forensic &cie series, you have CSI, NCIS, Bones, The Shield, NYPD, NYPJ, ... to say the most renowned series who is broadcasted each evening.
And you have one, maybe two french forensic series who are holy **** ...

That's France, baby
Even if it's hard to find his place in the industry in US, I think it's much more harder in France or other little country.

But you have very cool things too, it's not so bad

What attracts me is VFX, such as the fantastic scenes in 300, Pan's Labyrinth, or those pieces done by ILM.

I DON'T expect ANY CG training in film school

Yep VFX attracts me too for sure, but what I want to know is if it possible in USA to make a sort of double major from film school in a MFA and MS or MEng in CG ...

 

[yc1911]

Sorry, I don't know UCLA's policy. As for USC, I'm also trying to figure out the budget. You may find some first-hand info in this journal and this diary. One thing for sure: compare the listed money with facility they can provide. Every school has its own policy. Say FSU, I was told that the school covers almost all money spent in student projects. They run the school more like production house. Students have to compete on positions in projects. Many people in this forum know much more than me.

It looks like your country has been "attacked" by Hollywood, too. I thought it only happens in a small country like ours. I like Hollywood anyway.

I don't consider a CG/Film double major a good idea. You can find some VFX, modeling, rendering, and animation courses in CS department. Read their syllabus yourself. They look fantastic, however, believe me, even in such courses, we talk ONLY about algorithms and computing issues, nearly no sense of art or storytelling skill is needed there. The theory underlying VFX can have TOTALLY nothing to do with film itself, while film production needs only the RESULT of a very very small portion of CG research. Just imagine a director busy calculating some sets of linear equations on set, instead of taking care of the mood, the acting, and the story?! Or some CG PhD considering to create some dramatic flavor in his/her paper by adding dialogues?! ... come on, it's horrible.

 

[Yannovitch]

I'm laughing since 30 min reading your last thread, yc1911, I'm imagining CG PhD creating a drama ... And you know what ... That's a very cool idea ( joke )
But imagine now that I've a CG MSc and that after 10 years of directing I'm fed up with all the stress , ...
Or imagine that even if I graduate from USC, I can't earn enough money and I can't find with or without a producer enough money to produce my super blockbuster ... I will maybe try to find a work at ILM
I say that to say you it's not a so bad idea.

Loool, no I'm not an anti american and France is not under an attack from Hollywood but the production in France is not producted with the equivalent amount of money, it's all ...

Okay, a good point for USC concerning the "production house"

 

[yc1911]

Cheers!

 

[Yannovitch]