The cost

[wolfmanjack]

Hey! Wanted to talk about the cost of film school. Sorry in advance for the length of this post.

How is everyone paying? I've calculated the total toll, and after a visit to Columbia and NYU, I'm genuinely terrified--most of the students I spoke to said they were in massive amounts of debt. The cost breakdown I came up with matched their estimates (for Columbia):

First and second year
Tuition: 24,724
Fees: 4,170 (including health insurance)
Living expenses: 23,516 (conservative estimate from Columbia website)
Film expenses: 10,000+ (most MFA students, it turns out, have to pay for all of their films--the schools just give them teh equipment and editing space. Extra film? Permits? Crew? You have to pay for that stuff yourself. This shocked me).

Third year - fifth year expenses per year (most MFAs take about five years, apparently)
Tuition: 2,042
Fees: 4,170
Living expenses: 23,516
Film expenses: 10,000+

Total for one year: 62,410
Total for first two years: 124,820
Cost per year of last three years: 39,728
Total for last three years: 119,184

First two years + last three years: 244,004

Apparently, that's a conservative estimate! Even with a 10,000 "scholarship" every year, which is the highest scholarship I heard of from the students I spoke with, it still adds up to $194,004. Most students don't receive the TA positions that wipe out tuition.

Not to mention: Columbia's tuition is about half that of NYU and other big schools.

How do you come up with $194,004? How do you pay off $194,004 debt with a degree that, at best, will get you an entry-level job at a studio paying maybe $40,000 per year? At NYU, I was told that only 10% of graduates went on to become directors/screenwriters in any sense.

I'm reapplying this year, but even if by some miracle I get in, I have no idea whether or not I'll be able to attend.

This may sound callous, but: I'm concerned about being stupid enough to spend $200,000 on a degree just to be surrounded by people as dumb as I am. Or, being surrounded by people who don't necessarily have any film-related talent, but parents rich enough to cover the costs.

 

[wolfmanjack]

Sorry, forgot to include articles:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07...at-usc-nyu-ucla.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02...in-the-mailroom.html

They explain why I'm pretty sure I won't be able to pay off the debt so easily.

 

[wolfmanjack]

Thanks for the clarification, Kaschko. That's not comforting! With the extra costs, it's closer to 294k, not 244.

Do any current students have any tips for dealing with that amount of debt? Anyone? It seems like cost is the big white elephant in this forum; everyone is well aware of it, no one wants to talk about it.

 

[freakyfreddy]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/...r-career.html?page=4

Just make sure you marry rich.

 

[wolfmanjack]

Thanks! Inspiring.

Seriously, though, guys: how do you pay for film school?

I know current film MFAs who frequent this board--help! Do you have a combination of loans, grants, personal savings? how do you come up with 250,000+?

 

[Mighty]

GradPlus Loans will cover the expenses outside of the federal Stafford loans, both un and sub.

And yeah, that figure to attend Columbia is horrifying.

If I was accepted, would I take the risk? Yes, I think so.

One one hand, the school could give me the expertise to be a great artist. OTOH, I could graduate a mediocre talent at best and be, professionally, in the same position I was in before I left for grad school.

Scary stuff, indeed.

If you think grad school is a necessary step to achieve your goals ... then do it. If the cost continue to send shock-waves of disbelief down your spine ... then don't do it.

 

[Celine]

Hello,

I apologize for my long ramblings but I feel these things are important to say to wake up the young people.

I am concerned with the cost as well. Once you do get accepted do you fill out the FAFSA first or look for scholarships? I applied to Fast Web but it is really hard to see which scholarships are real and which are a scams.


Where is the best website to go for scholarships where you know they are not a scam or does that not being realistic?


I was wondering about the cost as well.

I already have loans from my undergraduate study and have applied to jobs but have not been successful.

I have four years to pay it off. I am in my last deferment and then if I do not get a job I will go into forbearance.

Then if I get accepted to any university then the total cost would roughly be $212,000.

I know should have filled out scholarships. I did get one but the some was not high.

What is the best way to pay off both loans if I cannot get a job and lets say do not get accepted to any scholarships?



You might think I want everything for free but if you read what I wrote closely you will find out I do not like the greed of Universities.

So why even bother attending if I do not like the system? That is a valid question. In this country if you are not extremely rich or talented, or work more than 40 hours a week you have few choices: get a minimum wage job or more, go to the military or attend college.

I did all the options I mentions but not the military

Can I go to the military? No you have to be strong and healthy which has been a challege to me and only if you survive the military can you get a scholarship.



I have a Bachelor of Science degree and found out in my case not everybody is like me even with my degree I can only get a minimum wage job because of lack of experience.

The argument of experience is interesting because how can you get experience if you do not get hired? Yes I volunteered but that has not helped me get a job. I have 9 years of experience with everything together including internships and volunteering and my undergraduate and AA degree.

I know not a lot but I do have health conditions where it is difficult to work many hours or volunteer. I do what I can.



Also is it true the the student loan bubble is next? It is what I heard. Here are some articles.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/...cial-stability-issue

http://www.businessinsider.com...idden-reality-2012-9

http://www.policyshop.net/home...ues-to-escalate.html



http://www.infowars.com/the-st...of-modern-day-serfs/

I know Alex Jones website whether you like him or not or don't believe him. This is still the best article about the truth of student loans.

This is an excerpt

If you do not pay your loans when you graduate, you could send up having your wages, your tax refunds and even your Social Security benefits garnished.

In addition, your account could be turned over to the debt collectors and they can be absolutely brutal.

The student loan debt bubble is the best thing to happen to debt collectors in ages. The following is what one professional who works in the industry said in a recent article that he wrote for a debt collection industry publication”¦.

As I wandered around the crowd of NYU students at their rally protesting student debt at the end of February, I couldn't believe the accumulated wealth they represented - for our industry.

It was lip-smacking.

At my right, to graphically display how she was debt-burdened, was a girl wearing a t-shirt emblazoned with the fine sum of $90,000, another with $65,000, a third with $20,000 and over there a really attractive $120,000 was printed on another shirt. Guys were shouldering their share, with t-shirts of $20,000, $15,000, $27,000, $33,000 and $75,000.

Here is the whole article. http://www.insidearm.com/opini...loan-bill-collector/


Just one excerpt


Although not every NYU student debtor was there - past or current - to participate, it's been projected that some $659,000,000 in NYU Student Debt is hanging out there. Yes, $659 MILLION! This is the largest student debt of any non-profit university in the country. If non-profits can rack up these numbers, you can imagine the dollars owed, collectively, by for-profit schools.

By the way what happens if it does burst. What will happen to the loans? Will we go to jail? I heard you cannot get other loans which I suppose if good if you are already in debt. I actually heard when I talked to direct loans today they told me if you do get a job but still can not pay off the debt they take it out of your pay check.

What about those who have a job that just makes end meet? As I mentioned so often please vote for those who are for liberty and ask your representatives to support laws that students can file bankruptcy.

Also change.org has really changed things.

Please write petitions and sign them and tell the universities to stop their greed and mandatory event fees and having large corporations feed us food in the universities especially the state run universities. Also a good idea is to eat off campus if there are large corporations that feed you. People want separation of church and state how about separation between corportations and state.

If the professors want more money they need to have more students in the class and not use TAs.

Tell the union to stop supporting greedy professors.

Also tell the government to repeal the law where they took over the loans.

They have not made it better. Debt Collectors can now lobby the government for increased interest rates and more laws to prevent students from filing bankruptcy.

Also did you know that shareholders on Wall Street make big money off your debt and some schools own stocks like Capella?

Tell your universities to stop supporting Wall Street greed, and giving money to big corporations.

I ask all of you that are for liberty to stop using anything that you can that makes these universities greed expand such as drinking from the vending machines, applying from credit companies that come to the universities, and if you can help it please do not support corporations that come to your schools that promise you a wonderful job.

Why are some corporations that are greedy coming to our schools and giving us lies about wonderful jobs? When the truth is they want you to come out of the university so can go into their corporations and have a minimum wage job or three or four and still not make ends meet.

The big corporations win because they have cheap labor and the debt collectors, and shareholders who have ties to the corporations win because they have your debt and you live in poverty.

Also buy the books somewhere else and if you really want to see change things do not go to any of the events on campus. I experienced that I paid event fees with tuition and I went to the events and I still had to pay.

If you can do not live in the dorms or off campus housing provided from the university because some have mandatory meal plans and if you skip one they still make you pay.


I read professors get more money with less students. I know more interaction. That is not always the truth.


If the corportation can file bankrupty and you can file bankruptcy if you can't pay for your house why is this different.

Also I talked to my loan servicer that it does not matter what happens to the economy even if the dollar would be so useless just like the mark was in Germany where people had to literally have a wheel barrow full of cash to buy a loaf of bread. You still have to pay it off.

Do not believe me about Germany? I am German and some of my older relatives saw this happen.

I wonder if the law to forgive loans after 20 years will pass and is it a good idea. It sounds like it but I wonder if there are strings attached? Would the law only affect those you got loans after 2008?

Also the article of the Insider Arm stated there were few comments. Wonder why. Please comment

I ask the masses to wake up. We really need to stop letting them control us with their advertisments corporations and tv shows. I would like to see more people like Charlie Chaplin who some say was communist and although not perfect stood up for opression As I have so often mentioned film students have the amazing opportunity to be a platform to make films about student debt and credit card debt and the truth about corporations coming to offer us jobs at the universities.


Would love to see many documentaries on student debt

 

[wolfmanjack]

Kaschko

- Thanks for responding, guys. I know that the schools dole out some scholarships, but the bulk of students I spoke to got nothing. Which is sad.

Which external scholarships can international students apply for aside from Fullbright? I did some scouring, and that's the only one I found that would apply to an MFA program.

 

[wolfmanjack]

Goblin--it's great that you were able to find work. I've been looking for the past four months after my last contract ended, and can't find any right now (I mean *any*, yes I've tried everywhere).

 

[Celine]

Hello everyone,

I actually wrote 40 hours or more. Also we seem to be slaves to the system of corporate greed.

I have tried to find a job for many years and I have no criminal record. I did internships, volunteer etc and still cannot get a job and even those that offer minimum wage do not offer me a job.

Today I called a person to help with debt and he assumed that I took at loans and immediately want their help.

I have no idea why people just make assumptions.

Yes loans are bad but sometimes people cannot get scholarships or find a job.

Why is it always when corporations have no money and they get bailouts which is corporate welfare many do not care which by the way was many billions of dollars and even more but when little people who take out loans and cannot find a job people frown upon?

I can only contribute it to our culture of corporations being some sort of king that the masses follow.

I do not mind big business but do not get big by dirty means.

By the way where are the activists that stand up for students who have a degree and cannot find a job and then get blamed that they took out loans?

If you are for any liberty at all please look at corporate greed. We blame the little people but never look at the greed of universities, some teachers (example teacher strikes and still the students learn nothing)

You cannot expect someparents to teach their kids because some of them have the belief that school is there to teach students how to read and write and write and learn morals.

We need to end the Federal Reserve system and get loans out of the hands of the government and vote for those who were against the bailouts and bother our congress until there is a Constitutional Amendment that separates corporations and government (example get corporations out of our universities)



People need to care about each other again and not spend more time with their cellphones than humans.

Parents need to educate their kids about money and morals not the government.

You get a low paying job if you have a high school education some of us try hard but to do have super human talent and ability to get rich and would get burn out and sick if worked all hours of the day.

It is hard to get a job after undergraduate unless if you are just ordinary or at best get a minimum wage job.

Then you go to graduate school and have probably more debt unless you some how manage racking in big money and many cannot find work and they tried.

Did you know there are MIT graduates who had a high paying job and got fired even though they did nothing wrong?

The media conditions people to blame the little person and see corporations has an entity that can do no wrong after all they provide us all the toys we want.

That is what happened in Rome people demanded more bread and circuses as their empire was crumbling.

Please do not let what happened in Germany with the mark happen here.

Please tell congress to back the dollar with gold and tell them to print the money instead of the Federal Reserve and tax the people instead of the IRS. This is what the Constitution says to do. End the IRS and contact your Congress to take care of taxes.

Also tell them that there needs to be a law that if this does happen nobody from the Federal Reserve, IMF, World Bank etc can have a say on those taxes.

Also tell them to have an amendment that all those that do not follow the real rules of the land have consequences.

Sorry I am just so upset that some of society does not wake up.

What will it take more bailouts more, more greed, more tyranny at our airports, more drones, more torture and more lies from the media? How about more toxins in our air, food and water?

Did you know there is only limits to poisons that can be in our air food and water? Why do we think that is okay for the government only to set limits? How about there be no tolerance to these toxins and it cannot be in our food, air and water. I mean toxins the corporation put purposely in our environment.



I know no political talk on these sites. Well if I do get banned there are enough people out there who would help.

It is important for everyone to know that those contracts where you cannot say this on a websites violates the Constitution. The Constitution mentions freedom of speech and I have found nothing in there about corporations that can violate that law


Also tell Congress to make a law that the Constitution will be the only law of the land.

I know it is not the Constitution is not perfect but much better than what we have now with so many new bills and old ones with 1000s of pages that never get read and not even written by Congress but a separate group of lawyers.

These lawyers even have a website.

 

[Guest]

I wasn't willing to go $100K + into debt for film school. Getting rid of my first set of student loans was a PITA, and I didn't want to rack up that kind of debt again. I'm MUCH older than then, and my whole life isn't ahead of me anymore. I had to ask myself what was more important to me - learning how to make films or being able to brag about which film school I attended.

I decided learning how to make films was more important, so I applied and enrolled in the MFA in Digital Cinema at National University. No, it's not a "name" film school, but I'll learn the same things that students at the "name" film schools will learn. And, when it's all said and done, I'll owe less than $45,000 for my MFA (including tuition, fees, equipment, software, AND residency travel/lodging costs), and IMHO that's a manageable debt load. I can hob-knob, meet, and befriend the "rising stars of filmmaking" at film festivals and industry events.

ETA: My classmates include studio execs and other influential people who are already established, vetted, and plugged into the film and entertainment industry, so I don't feel that I'm missing out on any networking opportunities by not attending a "name" school.

 

[EniMinx]

New here. Thanks for the post Eshe. I'm also looking to attend a "no name" because of the ridiculous costs of the programs, and I was curious about anyone's experiences with networking, job searching, etc. I've been accepted to a school already, and my admission has been deferred until next fall, but I have been questioning whether saving on tuition costs is worth the experience I could possibly get at a school like USC or UCLA.

 

[Guest]

In my humble opinion, I think the only advantage that schools like USC or UCLA have over younger, less established film programs at schools like National University is that those name schools make it a lot easier for students to network with the big wigs - but they're paying a huge premium for the "privilege".

A "name" school may open some initial doors for you, but once you're in YOU have to keep yourself there and it's going to be the quality of your work that's going to do it. Not going to a "name" school may mean taking a couple of extra steps that other students don't have to take, but if you are motivated to take advantage of the other avenues that are available to you (film festivals, YouTube, social media, conferences, etc), and have the talent, you can have what they have - minus the crushing student debt load. And, the less debt you have, the more freedom you'll have to make the movies YOU want to make.

Plus, remember, student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy, except under very, very narrow circumstances. So, it's in your best interest not to borrow exorbitant sums of money just to say you attended NYU or UCLA, etc. After you start making movies, I don't think anybody's going to care where you went to school, anyway.

Good luck!

 

[EniMinx]

Definitely stuff to consider, especially since I have enough in undergrad loans. I like to believe that hard work and motivation can make a difference, especially when tuition at my choice school is 48K a year!

 

[Guest]

I don't care who is teaching - it's still not worth $150,000 or more. Famous filmmakers do the same thing that non-famous ones do, and just because someone isn't famous doesn't mean they're not as good as someone who is famous.

Given the small odds of becoming a rich and famous filmmaker - or even making enough money off of a film to pay off the student loans in a reasonable amount of time - unless a person has money to burn or a rich uncle, it's reckless and irresponsible to go into that kind of debt (on top of undergraduate debt, let's not forget).

Shoot, where I live $150,000 is a very nice and spacious HOUSE with a nice size front yard and a huge back yard. I'd rather pay less, learn the same thing and be able to ALSO AFFORD a home than go to NYU or USC and end up renting a condo or, even worse, living with a roommate because my student loan debt is eating up every dollar I make.

Mod Edit: removing off topic stuff