Chapman vs. NYU

[Jayimess]

Insult away, folks. I'll be able to sleep at night.

To me, this site is about helping each other. A high school senior asked for advice regarding film schools, and BA's reply of "NYU" and nothing more was regarded as anti-Chapman. Who knows if it was. It still wasn't helpful!

As someone who also made some films during her undergrad, at a school which nobody would consider in the same breath as NYU or Chapman, I can tell you, it's not the name of your school that gets you everywhere...it's what you put into it.

Steph, I definitely am not anti-AFI or pro-Chapman. The only school I can endorse is my own, and even had the question been NYU or Chapman versus USC, I wouldn't have simply offered a three letter answer.

I have gleefully shepherded one of my closest friends (from that same non-name institution I got my BA from) through the application process at both schools this year, and she was accepted into both. She'll be attending AFI.

I couldn't be happier for her.


I'm here because this forum saved my life last year, and I think the process shouldn't be so hard, so I want to help others. I also think it's a great way to build a film student network . I know everyone at USC from this forum last year, some of my closest friends in film school, actually. Winter and Philly saved my ass when I took my aforementioned friend on a tour of Chapman. I have friends at NYU, UCLA, UMiami, and Columbia because of this forum. I even hung out with prospective applicant Ryan C. at First Look.

(Remember, Bandar, it was the same day you asked if there were extra tickets to the Raiders of the Last Ark screening, and I told you I had two for you, via three media, actually, and you never replied. EVER...which I found odd, but whatever.)

I think this is fascinating, the way people are changing within WEEKS of gaining acceptance, acting like...I dunno, something they think they wish they were.

We should be using this site to network, people.

If you plan on continuing to advise people on this forum, realize that a one word answer, with no explanation or justification is not only unhelpful to those asking for that advice, it can be viewed as insulting. Just because Bandar would choose NYU over Chapman doesn't mean that Zap should. Just knowing his choice does not help him. Each school is different for each student.

Deep breaths, everyone.


Now, Zapzorak, you poor thing, what are you going to do about your film school quandary?

Best of luck with such a difficult decision, though I'm sure you'll make the best of wherever you go.

This thread was originally about you, and it must return to be, and remain to be, about you.

PS....Please don't think the angry ones are crazy...well, go ahead, but in that good artisty kind of way. ;-)


Edited for html issues.

 

[BillyD]

Well, as an old poster and current lurker, I can say, from an outside and totally objective perspective, that certain people have indeed come across as "incendiary" in recent discussions. When someone publicly posts their scholarship offer, for example, I think that's in incredibly poor taste. Just my two cents, though. It's extremely hard to get a feel for someone via online discussion, but despite that, judgments about character will, for better or worse, still be made. My opinion is that you disregard the power of the internet and your online reputation at your own risk.

 

[Maseiya]

Jayimess--I never said you were anti-AFI or pro-Chapman. I know you have friends in like, every school. I've read a lot of your posts.

To paraphrase something Anthony de Mello once said, Let's seek the truth and start by dropping our opinions.

I'm curious about one thing though--and don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to insult. Flamewars are pretty pointless, so I don't understand why you're encouraging them. Insults and petty online squabbles aren't helping anyone, at least in my humble opinion. <--unless you were just being sarcastic.

 

[Bandar Albuliwi]

There really isn't a point to continue this discussion because it is seriously getting out of hand and swaying way off topic here.

I'm not as evil as people are making me out to be, and things that I have posted on these forums may have come off as a bit incendiary but I meant well.

 

[Cinematical]

I think many of the misconceptions surrounding Chapman stem from the division between the university and the Dodge College. Chapman the university isn't elite, and certainly isn't anywhere near the caliber of an NYU or a USC. If you "talked politics" with general students from Chapman, yes, you might come away slightly disenchanted (I don't mean to offend any general Chapman-ights here, as I'm sure there are stellar students in the school). But if you look at the FILM SCHOOL; well, then you're talkin' a whole other ball-game. Currently, the Dodge College puts SC (the former champ) to shame in the equipment department; they also have some of the best professors in the country (they went out and basically bought all the best ones for their college). A friend of mine who goes to Chapman put it best - the two schools (Chapman and Dodge) are fundamentally different.

Chapman is an elite film school - there simply is no denying it. Heck, they're threatening enough to USC's position that George Lucas dumped $175 million on the School of Cinematic Arts to ensure that his school wasn't being shown-up.

But, as most people have said, it's not the school that will make you. It's how comfortable you feel in the school. Remember, film school is only one way to develop your cinematic talents - there's a very good argument for developing outside of film school, if that fits someone better. No film school will give you a pass to the industry; heck, it probably wont do much to actually get you in. What it WILL do is provide a supportive, enclosed learning environment to develop in.

So go into the decision with this in mind: how "good" the film school is is ultimatley irrelevant when considering the schools of Chapman's and NYU's caliber - what matters is, will you be able to grow there?

 

[Bandar Albuliwi]

Great post Cinematical!

 

[Bandar Albuliwi]

Originally posted by BillyD:
It's extremely hard to get a feel for someone via online discussion, but despite that, judgments about character will, for better or worse, still be made.

I agree BillyD. I think lots of judgments have been made about certain people on these forums (myself included) based on personal tastes, likes vs. dislikes, etc...

 

[Bandar Albuliwi]

BillyD,

By the way, I remember your posts from last year when you were applying (I didn't have an account back then).

Did you get into the school of your choice? If I remember correctly, you were applying to Columbia, NYU and UCLA?

 

[CelestiallyEccentric]

Originally posted by Cinematical:

But, as most people have said, it's not the school that will make you. It's how comfortable you feel in the school. Remember, film school is only one way to develop your cinematic talents - there's a very good argument for developing outside of film school, if that fits someone better. No film school will give you a pass to the industry; heck, it probably wont do much to actually get you in. What it WILL do is provide a supportive, enclosed learning environment to develop in.

So go into the decision with this in mind: how "good" the film school is is ultimatley irrelevant when considering the schools of Chapman's and NYU's caliber - what matters is, will you be able to grow there?

How good a film school seems in anyones opinion is totally irrelevant to someone else.
It's all based on how the individual school feels about attending and what they feel they will get out of it. Your opinion and other peoples opinions don't matter when it comes to a persons personal decision. Status, to me, doesn't matter. The latest state of the art technology, I could care less about. It's all based on how comfortable I feel about the school. Do I feel, as an individual that Chapman would be right for me? Yes, I do. But that doesn't mean I'm going to debate what is a better school. Something what seems better, to me, might not seem better to you.

 

[Cinematical]

Isn't that what I said....?

 

[Winterreverie]

zapzorak56- What is they style of writing you are interested in? or rather the style of film? If you have a stronger art-house, indie flair, from what I know NYU might fit the bill. If you tend to write more main stream- Chapman might be a better fit. But really, style is NOT the part of a school set in stone. In my feature screenwriting class there are indie comedy writers (a la Little Miss Sunshine), Fantasy writers, Darker racier Dramedy (a la Hedwig and the Angry Inch), a few coming of age stories, a couple true life adaptations, A nineteenth century drama, and I think maybe one "typical Hollywood comedy" but as you can see, each student will bring their own style regardless of the "style" the school is known for.
IMDB faculty and recurring professors. One of my personal favorites at Chapman is Tom Mankiewicz who loves to schmooze over lunch with us and often brings his friends (Like Richard Donner)to meet with us and discuss his process as well as offer students opportunity to work with him.

If you go back to the first post I left you and answered those questions and are still up in the air on your choice try visiting both schools. The impressions They'll make will go a long way in helping you decide where you'll be happiest. Meet the students, see the surrounding area, and you'll just know if you fit.

Film school is what you make of it. So long as the program has equipment, insight, and opportunity it really doesn't matter where you get your degree from. But it should be a place you feel nurtures your creative voice.

PM me your email and I will forward it along to some undergrads I've worked with on set and they can give you more insight. Many on the forums are graduates and our concerns tend to be different than an undergrad's.


And as a side note-- I have no ill feelings towards any film school and have friends at just about all of them, including AFI. I don't think anyone needed to defend AFI as no one was talking down on it. I (as well as Bruno from an earlier thread) only felt the need to defend our school from people who are not part of the program and believe it is their right to offer negative insight. I would never presume to know more about a program I didn't have personal experience in-- especially over those who do.

Thanks to all who defended me and my frustration as I'm sure any of you in the same situation would defend your own schools. I suppose I was taken aback, because in the past these threads were more about support and establishing relationships with other up-coming students regardless of school rather than competition on who's school is better.

 

[Bandar Albuliwi]

Jayimess,

I must have missed your post back then about the film screening at First Look, sorry!

Can't we all just get along?

 

[Bandar Albuliwi]

And Winter,

I was not talking down about your school. I was offering my personal opinion, which happened to come across as talking down about your school.

I'll be the first to appologize if I offended you or your school in any way. And I would actually love to meet up for coffee or a drink if you would like, so we can talk like civilized human beings!

No hard feelings?

 

[Cinematical]

Civility reigns! Hip hip, Hooray!

And now I should actually get back to work...

 

[CelestiallyEccentric]

Originally posted by Cinematical:
Isn't that what I said....?

Yes. Pretty much. It's all this talk of equipment and status that I was trying to get at.

 

[BillyD]

Originally posted by Bandar Albuliwi:
BillyD,

By the way, I remember your posts from last year when you were applying (I didn't have an account back then).

Did you get into the school of your choice? If I remember correctly, you were applying to Columbia, NYU and UCLA?

Yep, I did. Thanks for asking. I'm really loving Columbia. Can't believe the first year is almost over, though...

 

[birdman78]

I kind of doubt the original poster is still looking at this thread. I'm glad civility is back at reign, though I have to admit one can learn a thing or two from angry fire clashing posts.

Now, what's weird is that everyone writing on this thread is grad students or grad prospects, and it seems like they're referring to the grad programs of this school.

One thing to consider for undergrad, and I might be wring - but I think I heard that somewhere - is that in NYU the first two years you don't really get into actual film making and it's more of a general studies kinda thing.
I don' know how Chapman's undergrad is - but that might factor in heavily (either way... there is a lot to be said about a strong liberal arts foundation by the way).

look into it.

 

[MichaelJM]

birdman78- Film classes start as a freshman. No idea about NYU.
---
I just wanted to reply about what was said about the quality of Chapman films. I don't want to offend anyone by this, and I certainly don't want to start an argument. I just wanted to give you my perspective on what I consider to be an important issue.

I try and go to the film screenings at Chapman whenever they hold them. To be honest, I am mostly disappointed by what I see. But let me take a step back. The production value on all of them is great. However, what I find lacking in most of the films, is the quality of the story. There are films that come out of Chapman that are great, and they have a great screenplay etc. (like "The Show Must Go On" as Winterreverie mentioned) Each week though, I am always disappointed. Keep in mind I'm probably too harsh a critic, but all of my friends agree with me.

Before everyone starts to run away from Chapman, let me say this. I think that there will be better and better films coming out of Chapman. But aside from that speculation, I find that it is up to the individual student how good the film ends up being. You could say that my comments prove Chapman doesn't prepare students, but I would disagree. Just like it's up to you which school you prefer, it's up to the student how to approach filmmaking. Don't look at the films at Chapman or any school and say, "If I go there, I will make films like that". Say instead, "If I go there, I will make better films than that". It's not arrogance; it's a goal. Don't judge a film school by what you see others getting out of it. Judge it by what you think you can get out of it.