UCLA or Columbia - which one to pick for Directing?

[ark]

Would appreciate any suggestion on this question facing me:
UCLA or Columbia, for MFA- directing?

There is the question of money - I believe UCLA is cheaper than Columbia.

Is LA cheaper than NYC, and which is a better place for an international student?

 

[bob loblaw]

Well, I'm on the Columbia waitlist, so I have a vested interest in you picking UCLA... BUT..

UCLA and Columbia are the only two schools I applied to, and had I gotten into both, I would have chosen UCLA. I toured the department with a friend when I was down there, talked to people (students, 1 UCLA administrator, faculty) at both schools, and it was pretty clear how great the program is. It's definitely cheaper... cost of school, and cost of living (though the latter perhaps not by a ton).

In both cases it will cost you a lot to live near campus, though Columbia is apparently more likely to give you student housing... apparently Columbia student housing is a gamble... some really nice apartments, some really terrible ones... some close, some far... and all for pretty close to the same price. Neither Westwood nor Morningside Heights are affordable, and they're both pretty lame neighborhoods.

The students I talked to at Columbia LOVED the program, but also said that I should go to UCLA. Their main argument was the cost and the industry connections. Columbia has been doing pretty great in terms of alumni success at festivals and such, but UCLA is at the doorstep of the industry.

I also got a much warmer, friendlier feeling from my UCLA interview than my Columbia one (though you may have had a different experience). I didn't really see the Columbia facilities... they seemed to have sweet dual-monitor post-production workstations in the one lab downstairs though. But at UCLA I saw two huge soundstages, a number of enclosed/sound-treated editing rooms, a sweet theater playing films for the theory departments as well as production so there are screenings every day... I don't know, I'm being completely honest... it seemed amazing. But to be fair, I didn't get nearly as much of an inside look at Columbia.

I don't have any information about funding for international students. Both cities are very international and diverse, and both programs seem really welcoming of a diversity of backgrounds and viewpoints, so can't help you there.

Good luck figuring it out, and let us know your decision! Thanks in advance if you give up your Columbia slot

 

[weareonetonight]

bob loblaw - just wanted to give a shout out and say thanks for such a great post comparing the two! Tons of helpful/honest info in there; it was generous of you to write and post it.

I had to give up my Columbia spot a couple days ago. If I could, I would love to pass it directly to YOU. Fingers crossed for ya You sound like you deserve it.

 

[ColumbiaNYC]

The students I talked to at Columbia LOVED the program, but also said that I should go to UCLA.

That surprises me, to be honest. I've never met a single student here who would have preferred to get into UCLA instead. Sure, it's about 10k cheaper per year, but the education is totally different.
If you compare their equipment and sound stages, UCLA will win. And probably every other big film school in the States has better equipment than Columbia too. My opinion is however that this is the least thing you should consider when choosing a film school. It is much more about the content. At the moment no other film school worldwide has more films in competitions than Columbia and the combination of writing and directing is still pretty unique. People who choose Columbia see themselves rather as filmmakers who want to focus on strong storytelling and powerful directing instead of getting to know the technology behind it. Sure, we have some great DPs and editors too but nothing compared to USC or NYU.

I also disagree that UCLA has much better contacts to the industry. Sure, they're in LA but Columbia has close connections to NYC companies like HBO, NBC and Focus Features (although the headquarter is in California, the CEO teaches at Columbia).

If you really have the choice, you have to ask yourself were you belong. UCLA will offer you more high end equipment and might be better to work on your visual style. If you want to learn how to express yourself and tell strong stories for an arthouse audience, Columbia could be a better place.
Then again, I am of course biased.

 

[bob loblaw]

That surprises me, to be honest. I've never met a single student here who would have preferred to get into UCLA instead. Sure, it's about 10k cheaper per year, but the education is totally different.
If you compare their equipment and sound stages, UCLA will win. And probably every other big film school in the States has better equipment than Columbia too. My opinion is however that this is the least thing you should consider when choosing a film school. It is much more about the content. At the moment no other film school worldwide has more films in competitions than Columbia and the combination of writing and directing is still pretty unique. People who choose Columbia see themselves rather as filmmakers who want to focus on strong storytelling and powerful directing instead of getting to know the technology behind it. Sure, we have some great DPs and editors too but nothing compared to USC or NYU.

I also disagree that UCLA has much better contacts to the industry. Sure, they're in LA but Columbia has close connections to NYC companies like HBO, NBC and Focus Features (although the headquarter is in California, the CEO teaches at Columbia).

If you really have the choice, you have to ask yourself were you belong. UCLA will offer you more high end equipment and might be better to work on your visual style. If you want to learn how to express yourself and tell strong stories for an arthouse audience, Columbia could be a better place.
Then again, I am of course biased.

Well, don't get me wrong. I would absolutely love to go to Columbia... I think both schools have distinct advantages. When I said that the current students recommended I go to UCLA, they were talking about me, not them. Nobody I talked to about Columbia (except for one of my interviewers!) had anything bad to say about the program, though they did counsel me to think long and hard about the money... I'm also a CA resident, so it's more then 10k less (closer to 20, really) for sure, but that doesn't necessarily apply to Ark . Not to mention the better gear/facilities have the possibility of cutting down your production costs when you shoot your films... though I understand film students spend a ton of money on their films wherever they go to school.

I also think your point about writing/storytelling is true of Columbia, but works better as a comparison to an NYU or USC than comparing with UCLA. The reason I applied to UCLA and Columbia is that they BOTH have a strong emphasis on storytelling over technical mastery. Columbia, it's true, seems to have the most obsessive focus on writing, out of ALL the schools, and they have the results to show for it. But UCLA is training independent minded writer-directors as well, not technicians.

I can't really argue with you about industry contacts... I understand that NYC is a major film/TV/media center, and I don't know a ton of specifics about the pipeline between the two universities and the industry. I just know that every single person I talked -- UCLA students, Columbia Students, an industry veteran relative, even a Columbia faculty member -- seemed to take it for granted that LA was a better place to position yourself if you want to make movies for a living. That's not accounting for things like (as you mention) indie vs. Hollywood, differing industry cultures, or anything else that might make you want to live or work one place or another. Personally, I'm much more interested in living in NYC than LA, but obviously both UCLA and Columbia have serious industry people on faculty and surrounding them, seeing their students' films, etc.

Anyway, my preference for UCLA came down to 3 things
1.) lots of subjective factors: the 'vibe' (ooh, so California of me, haha), the student camaraderie I witnessed, my positive feelings about a UCLA production I worked on 2 years ago

2.) the almost unanimous advice I got from people that "If you can, you should be in LA"... that may make me sound impressionable and naive about industry prospects, but if I really had no interest in film school giving me a leg up into the industry (not just through contacts, but through enculturation and practical education about the business of film), I would probably spend the money on teaching myself through trial and error instead

3.) the cost


That said, there's a reason I didn't apply to USC, NYU, AFI, Chapman, FSU, UT Austin...

Both of these school seem AMAZING. If I get that waitlist call from Columbia I will be ecstatic. I'm hopefully going to work on a Columbia thesis film this Summer, regardless of if I get in. UCLA just seemed a bit more me.

 

[bob loblaw]

bob loblaw - just wanted to give a shout out and say thanks for such a great post comparing the two! Tons of helpful/honest info in there; it was generous of you to write and post it.

I had to give up my Columbia spot a couple days ago. If I could, I would love to pass it directly to YOU. Fingers crossed for ya You sound like you deserve it.

Thanks for the shout out. I wished so hard for the chance to choose between UCLA and Columbia, but I can't begrudge people who are in that position instead of me. It's a big decision to make without a lot of information, so I appreciate ColumbiaNYC's more first-hand input as well. We're lucky to have this forum... squeezing out every little drop of information from the crumbs we get through program websites, friends of friends, and harassing admissions counselors is a lot more fruitful if we do it collectively. I made it to interviews... if it doesn't work out this year, I'll find a way to get where I need to be.

 

[ColumbiaNYC]

I agree with a lot of things you said and want to get this right: Both are great schools!
So if you get into one of them you are definitely lucky. You know, after all it's anyway on you what you make of the chance offered by these schools. No film school can guarantee contacts or success with the industry. If you really want to make it, you have to be willing to travel east and west coast anyway. And I agree, lots of Columbia students leave for LA after they graduate. But there are of course also LA graduates who find their luck in NYC.
You seem to be as convinced of UCLA as I was convinced of Columbia and I really hope you'll get into the program you want.
On a personal note: I'm originally from Europe and I always connected much more with the 'vibe' of NY over CA. This is also important for your decision: Where do you want to spend the next years of your life?

 

[bob loblaw]

I agree with a lot of things you said and want to get this right: Both are great schools!
So if you get into one of them you are definitely lucky. You know, after all it's anyway on you what you make of the chance offered by these schools. No film school can guarantee contacts or success with the industry. If you really want to make it, you have to be willing to travel east and west coast anyway. And I agree, lots of Columbia students leave for LA after they graduate. But there are of course also LA graduates who find their luck in NYC.
You seem to be as convinced of UCLA as I was convinced of Columbia and I really hope you'll get into the program you want.
On a personal note: I'm originally from Europe and I always connected much more with the 'vibe' of NY over CA. This is also important for your decision: Where do you want to spend the next years of your life?

Yeah, I'm from Northern California, yet always thought of myself as a bit East Coast in nature. Only on my most recent visit to NYC (for the interview) did I realize how California I actually am... just not Southern California, haha. We Bay Area people like to think there's a ton of difference between us and LA people... and there is, but East Coast/West Coast is a much bigger cultural divide.

When I was in LA for my interview I went to brunch with two people who have been involved with film one way or another for probably a combined 70 or 80 years. The toughest question they asked me was "Well, do you want to make New York pictures or LA pictures?" I really hadn't thought of it that way before that point. I don't want my films to be determined by geography or industry... but it's important to know how those things will affect you in reality.

 

[bob loblaw]

Yeah, I'm from Northern California, yet always thought of myself as a bit East Coast in nature. Only on my most recent visit to NYC (for the interview) did I realize how California I actually am... just not Southern California, haha. We Bay Area people like to think there's a ton of difference between us and LA people... and there is, but East Coast/West Coast is a much bigger cultural divide.

When I was in LA for my interview I went to brunch with two people who have been involved with film one way or another for probably a combined 70 or 80 years. The toughest question they asked me was "Well, do you want to make New York pictures or LA pictures?" I really hadn't thought of it that way before that point. I don't want my films to be determined by geography or industry... but it's important to know how those things will affect you in reality.

Equally important: Pizza or tacos?

 

[GundamQ]

I heard UCLA is very reluctant to admit internationals 'cause the school is funded by the state or something. They must really like you OP

 

[kincid]

you can spend the rest of your life weighing pros and cons and it will do nothing else but drive you crazy. just go with your gut feeling. it doesn't have to make sense, and you don't owe anyone an explanation as to why - not even your self. the reason why I applied to one school only was because I had a really good feeling about it, and I knew it was risky, but hey. that's just my personal way of dealing with things and it might not work for everyone.

 

[weareonetonight]

I heard UCLA is very reluctant to admit internationals 'cause the school is funded by the state or something. They must really like you OP

Actually, they like admitting internationals, precisely because it boosts their otherwise limited state funding. International students have to pay higher tuition at UCs than in-state students, who get discounted tuition fees. So if you're a Californian applying to UCLA--great, their job is to take Californians, and if you're an out-of-state or international--that's GREAT too, because they need your tuition. No particular advantage for either group, when applying to UCLA. Don't be discouraged, no matter who you are, people.

The only tricky thing really is that the app process is harder for international students, because you often have to prove that you can afford to pay for school. Domestic students aren't asked for the same kind of proof.

 

[freakyfreddy]

you can spend the rest of your life weighing pros and cons and it will do nothing else but drive you crazy.

So true! I still have that "what if" about my undergrad school choice and I know I will always have that with my grad school. I ended up choosing Chapman over Columbia, but I had to think about my future and what was the best fit for what I want to do.

If I had to choose between a directing MFA from UCLA or Columbia I would choose Columbia. UCLA's facilities are overrated and if you want to direct you need to know how to write and I think better writers go to Columbia (and AFI).

 

[ark]

Thanks Bob! Let me do it again, thanks Bob. Still not enough. Thanks Bob, over and over again.

That did help with directions to think in. And though I read your post the day you posted it, only found time today to thank you.

And ColumbiaNYC, you as well.

And I know Bob, you want to know this: whether I have taken Columbia or not. I have one more day, and I am yet to decide! God, I can't tell you how I have wished I only had one acceptance.

Though the fact that UCLA+LA is cheaper than Columbia+NYC, by about 15-20,000 per year (rough estimate) may force my decision.

Equally important: Pizza or tacos?