let's talk about hopelessness!1!!1!

[dorkydiana]

does anyone else feel this sense of...despair....when it comes to rejection? idk how to explain it but i was on such a high during my undergrad, i had gotten into one of the best schools for my major in the country and i felt invincible like nothing could stop me from pursuing my dreams, which is why when it came to applying to graduate programs i didn't think it was a big deal...i mean i flew through my undergrad apps i thought to myself, "how hard could this be?" boy was i wrong LOL it was quite possibly the worst experience ever it just sucks bc i feel as though i'm isolated and not good enough bc i wasn't a film major in my undergrad and i'm coming into this wide eyed and naive with no experience under my belt :/ i'm self taught, and i was hoping to expand my knowledge and learn the ins and outs whilst in grad school. looking at examples people posted online and reading about the importance of cv's and looking back at my application and seeing my cv blank and looking back at my samples and doubting everything i wrote.... i felt like garbage and the whole acceptance process is so fucked up it takes such a great toll on one's mental health and that's just so disappointing :/ and now i'm at a point where i'm like reconsidering all the decisions i've made in my life and wondering if this is the right path i want to take...i mean don't get me wrong i love screenwriting and it's been a passion of mine for quite some time (i sadly could not pursue it in undergrad tho bc i was so far into my english degree i could not afford going forward with a completely different route) and to top this crappy sundae with a rotten cherry it sucks just a tad bit more bc im asian and if u're asian u already know how judgmental asian adults can be on ur career path it's like every time i talked to a family member about my education and what i want to do they had this look of....pity? on their face??? if u don't follow the asian trifecta of careers (doctor, lawyer, or engineer) u should basically just go live under an underpass bc u r now homeless and a failure in life HAHA convos with asian family members would go like: "oh so what school do u go to?" "berkeley" "oh WOW r u studying medicine?" "no no i'm an english major" ".....so.....u want to teach?" "? um no haha i want to become a screenwriter" "oh.....{insert look of pity and disgust]" ":/" so of course this only pushes me to pursue my dreams even more u know? now imagine the pain u get when u find out everything u were aspiring to accomplish is slowly becoming a pipe dream bc of this fucked up system of having only a small amount of ppl in a program every year LOL excuse me ma'am im willing to give u my money and live in a crippling debt just to receive some education and a piece of paper that says i went to ur school pleathe let me in i feel like a gr8 failure and i know i can keep on applying i know that im very aware of how ridiculous i sound but man when u already have everyone in ur life doubting u and thinking u're going to end up failing in life it's so....painful and sad....i had a family member say i wasted my parents money by getting a degree in something pointless and that i will end up a failure in four years time....so i really really really need this bc i know it's what i'm supposed to do....but with every passing day i become more hopeless and i keep crying and i hate it uGH so please share ur thoughts on this topic or anything really if u also have anxiety of some sort and just need someone to talk to im here! i just wanted to let this out somewhere bc it's been bubbling up inside of me for so long i feel like im going insane and this agonizing time isn't helping either HAHA man :/

 

[Chris W]

looking at examples people posted online and reading about the importance of cv's and looking back at my application and seeing my cv blank and looking back at my samples and doubting everything i wrote....

A lot of people get accepted without much filmmaking experience if that's what you're worried about.

As far as whether you'll get in... Take a deep breath. It's going to be ok. Even if you don't get in. Film School doesn't make you.

Read @Patrick Clement 's interview for some good insight on this:

Q & A With Patrick Clement, Columbia MFA Screenwriting & Directing Student

"I went to Columbia because I wanted to be a better storyteller and understanding structure... and I do think my storytelling has gotten better and more complex and deeper and I'm really grateful to Columbia.... they delivered exactly what I expected them to deliver." Recently I had the...

• Chris W
• May 19, 2019
• 5.00 star(s) 1 reviews
• Comments: 5
• Reviews: 1
• Category: Film Student Interviews

In terms of advice for current film school applicants the main advice that Patrick kept coming back to was a reminder that film school is not the end goal... it's just part of the path. Or one of the paths.

"I think that some people have like rose colored glasses about what it means to go into like a top five film schools. So the expectations are higher... At Columbia you're going to end up spending a quarter of a million dollars to get a degree from Columbia. That's what it costs. That's including your tuition costs and the living expenses. That's your five year. Yeah, so I think we just have a higher expectation of what Columbia should deliver. But then my counter argument to that is to just have realistic expectations and I think a lot of people think that getting into one of the top five film schools is like the end that is the goal and it's just not.... and it's the same thing I tell my actor friends, they all think "Oh, as soon as I get in the Union I've made it." Well, that's not the goal. That's just something on the way to a goal. Yeah. So that's how I felt about Grad school too. I didn't think just getting into Columbia was going to make me. It's just another thing that will get me to where I want to go. Um, so you know, if people have realistic expectations and they've done their work then they're going to land where they're, where they're supposed to land."

Also many people apply many times before finally getting in like @IndecisiveElle

How to Handle Rejections from Film School

You didn’t get in. Now what? First of all, you’re not alone. I’ve been there. If you want to read more about my personal experiences with rejection, I have a blog post on it. But what this article is going to focus on is the steps you can take now to either move on or improve your chances for...

• IndecisiveElle
• Apr 5, 2018
• Category: Applying to Film School

So you've been denied to grad school, now what?

It's nearly the end of March and for the second year in a row, I have not received any acceptances for the MFA screenwriting programs I applied to. Of the 4 programs, currently I have two denials, one interview, and one I have not heard anything...

www.filmschool.org

 

[dorkydiana]

A lot of people get accepted without much filmmaking experience if that's what you're worried about.

As far as whether you'll get in... Take a deep breath. It's going to be ok. Even if you don't get in. Film School doesn't make you.

Read @Patrick Clement 's interview for some good insight on this:

Q & A With Patrick Clement, Columbia MFA Screenwriting & Directing Student

"I went to Columbia because I wanted to be a better storyteller and understanding structure... and I do think my storytelling has gotten better and more complex and deeper and I'm really grateful to Columbia.... they delivered exactly what I expected them to deliver." Recently I had the...

• Chris W
• May 19, 2019
• 5.00 star(s) 1 reviews
• Comments: 5
• Reviews: 1
• Category: Film Student Interviews

Also many people apply many times before finally getting in like @IndecisiveElle

How to Handle Rejections from Film School

You didn’t get in. Now what? First of all, you’re not alone. I’ve been there. If you want to read more about my personal experiences with rejection, I have a blog post on it. But what this article is going to focus on is the steps you can take now to either move on or improve your chances for...

• IndecisiveElle
• Apr 5, 2018
• Category: Applying to Film School

So you've been denied to grad school, now what?

It's nearly the end of March and for the second year in a row, I have not received any acceptances for the MFA screenwriting programs I applied to. Of the 4 programs, currently I have two denials, one interview, and one I have not heard anything...

www.filmschool.org

thank u for this ???

 

[caruss]

I seem to mostly just scan these boards (obsessively) without contributing, because even in the context of a writers' forum for writers who are nervous about their writing not being good enough, I'm still scared my comments will be dismissed as not helpful or clever and blah blah blah...
So I don't know much about anything, but I do know from my phantom trolling that you are hilarious and wonderful and so obviously a compelling writer. If for whatever stupid reason it doesn't work out this year, it's going to work out soon. I've never read your writing of course, but your voice is so strong and unique just on these forums that I suspect it's pretty f'ing good.
Good luck out there.

 

[dorkydiana]

I seem to mostly just scan these boards (obsessively) without contributing, because even in the context of a writers' forum for writers who are nervous about their writing not being good enough, I'm still scared my comments will be dismissed as not helpful or clever and blah blah blah...
So I don't know much about anything, but I do know from my phantom trolling that you are hilarious and wonderful and so obviously a compelling writer. If for whatever stupid reason it doesn't work out this year, it's going to work out soon. I've never read your writing of course, but your voice is so strong and unique just on these forums that I suspect it's pretty f'ing good.
Good luck out there.
View attachment 1525

i literally started tearing up i love u thank u for saying this i wish u all the best as well ??

 

[truffleshuffle]

You're totally natural in feeling this way, especially while still being young (and I don't mean that in a dismissive way), and I empathize because I too am Asian with very un-Asian ambitions. ?

First, like Chris said there are so many of the most talented and game-changing filmmakers who were rejected from film school, some multiple times. Just a few examples off the top of my head:

• Christopher Nolan said in an interview that he "couldn't get in anywhere."
• Kevin Feige got rejected from USC five straight semesters before finally getting accepted on his sixth try.
• Steven Spielberg was rejected by USC three times.
• Rian Johnson was rejected multiple times.

What's the commonality between them? They all kept going. They had been rejected, people around them knew about it I'm sure, and you know there were whispers or perhaps even in-their-face doubts about their chances, either from acquaintances who could care less about their wellness or loved ones who were genuinely concerned for their ultimate well-being. All of this on top of the growing internal doubts that anyone, especially artists, usually have. Some days were better than others even for these giants I'm sure, and I bet there were some teary nights full of self-doubt. But still, they pressed on and worked on it and got better at what they did. And look where they are. Still getting criticized and doubted, of course, but now on a more massive scale but I'm sure they're at least financially A-OK haha​

Another question to consider at this early stage of life is whether you are unconsciously equating true success with the outward visibility of success. Because people, especially non-artists, won't be able to recognize or understand what you're doing. Screenwriting, while one of the more pragmatic arts, is still an art. It's a craft that takes time to develop and yield visible success, and that's something we have to come to terms with as artists pursuing this craft. We won't be able to simply drop a number, a GPA, starting salary statistics, etc. to succinctly clue someone into our worth or value as an artist. It's very inconvenient in that sense, unlike say a doctor or lawyer. You'll get hesitant responses, questioning looks, both when you express your career ambitions and even when you describe a story you are working on. But try not to be upset with them. They just don't "get it" and they might not for quite awhile. They don't see your vision and they're not familiar with the various paths to a successful artist's career. At most they might only know vague stereotypes or tropes they've heard here and there. The painful process of gradually unlatching your self-worth and confidence from the opinions of others is just a part of growing I think. (Way easier said than done, obviously.)

And also this next point is something I've felt about our 2nd gen. Asian community for a long time: equating educational institutions with success. We are hammered from youth about a pretty singular pathway to success routing through schools, rooted in the Confucian-based cultures that dominated East/Southeast Asia for so long, and we internalize this model as THE model for success. It's destructive to the artistic struggle as it's really transposing the traditional pre-professional model and path for a doctor or lawyer onto something as varied and indefinable as an artist's career path. So we start treating USC, UCLA, etc. as the gatekeepers of success and failure in life, when it is simply not true when you look at the actual real world results: more successful people in Hollywood didn't go to film school than did.

So I totally understand the way you feel. The external doubt thrown on top of the internal doubt can be overwhelming. The lack of enthusiasm or encouragement from those around us can really take the wind out of our sails, especially when it seems so automatic for others with traditional careers. And being a successful young student such as yourself who got into tough schools like Berkeley (I failed out of UCLA years ago so I know how tough Berkeley is), the unfamiliar taste of institutional rejection and people who doubt you can be especially painful to your confidence. But as we wake up to a more accurate realization that there really are many paths forward to a successful and meaningful career in this, the less our belief in ourselves will depend on what some admissions committee randomly decided that cycle. We just have to accept that we will face more rejections, even beyond school, where more than just our confidence is at stake (i.e. money haha). We're going to feel doubt and heartbreak between our joys and successes. The most successful people are always saying this exact same thing now during interviews or podcasts. The feeling or perception of the "inevitability" of our success is a luxury we simply won't have like other disciplines until we're actually finally making movies, and even then the battle isn't over. I think as we mature we just learn how to deal with it better. God knows if I was going through this process in my early 20s I would have been a complete wreck. But years down the line as you're giving an interview about your latest successful film, you might mention your past rejections and failures as just small footnotes in history, which will A) cause the general public to marvel at your determination and more importantly B) it will give heart to fellow aspiring artists who are struggling with external and internal roadblocks. That's what Spielberg, Nolan, Feige, and other greats are always doing when they deliberately peel back the veneer of "inevitable success" to reveal their rejections and failures for the world to see. It's up to us to keep it real and pay it forward when our time comes.

P.S. Whether you listen to podcasts or not, Scriptnotes has got to be the most important thing for any aspiring screenwriter to listen to religiously every week. Such a wealth of wisdom from the co-hosts (both successful screenwriters/TV writers) and their prominent interview guests, on topics ranging from crafting story and character to navigating the business of the industry as a creative.

 

[Chris W]

Awesome post @truffleshuffle !

All of this on top of the growing internal doubts that anyone, especially artists, usually have.

Ahhh.... Imposter syndrome. I still experience that and I've been working successfully in TV and film for 20 years.

 

[caruss]

i literally started tearing up i love u thank u for saying this i wish u all the best as well ??

? ? ?

 

[dorkydiana]

You're totally natural in feeling this way, especially while still being young (and I don't mean that in a dismissive way), and I empathize because I too am Asian with very un-Asian ambitions. ?

First, like Chris said there are so many of the most talented and game-changing filmmakers who were rejected from film school, some multiple times. Just a few examples off the top of my head:

• Christopher Nolan said in an interview that he "couldn't get in anywhere."
• Kevin Feige got rejected from USC five straight semesters before finally getting accepted on his sixth try.
• Steven Spielberg was rejected by USC three times.
• Rian Johnson was rejected multiple times.

What's the commonality between them? They all kept going. They had been rejected, people around them knew about it I'm sure, and you know there were whispers or perhaps even in-their-face doubts about their chances, either from acquaintances who could care less about their wellness or loved ones who were genuinely concerned for their ultimate well-being. All of this on top of the growing internal doubts that anyone, especially artists, usually have. Some days were better than others even for these giants I'm sure, and I bet there were some teary nights full of self-doubt. But still, they pressed on and worked on it and got better at what they did. And look where they are. Still getting criticized and doubted, of course, but now on a more massive scale but I'm sure they're at least financially A-OK haha​

Another question to consider at this early stage of life is whether you are unconsciously equating true success with the outward visibility of success. Because people, especially non-artists, won't be able to recognize or understand what you're doing. Screenwriting, while one of the more pragmatic arts, is still an art. It's a craft that takes time to develop and yield visible success, and that's something we have to come to terms with as artists pursuing this craft. We won't be able to simply drop a number, a GPA, starting salary statistics, etc. to succinctly clue someone into our worth or value as an artist. It's very inconvenient in that sense, unlike say a doctor or lawyer. You'll get hesitant responses, questioning looks, both when you express your career ambitions and even when you describe a story you are working on. But try not to be upset with them. They just don't "get it" and they might not for quite awhile. They don't see your vision and they're not familiar with the various paths to a successful artist's career. At most they might only know vague stereotypes or tropes they've heard here and there. The painful process of gradually unlatching your self-worth and confidence from the opinions of others is just a part of growing I think. (Way easier said than done, obviously.)

And also this next point is something I've felt about our 2nd gen. Asian community for a long time: equating educational institutions with success. We are hammered from youth about a pretty singular pathway to success routing through schools, rooted in the Confucian-based cultures that dominated East/Southeast Asia for so long, and we internalize this model as THE model for success. It's destructive to the artistic struggle as it's really transposing the traditional pre-professional model and path for a doctor or lawyer onto something as varied and indefinable as an artist's career path. So we start treating USC, UCLA, etc. as the gatekeepers of success and failure in life, when it is simply not true when you look at the actual real world results: more successful people in Hollywood didn't go to film school than did.

So I totally understand the way you feel. The external doubt thrown on top of the internal doubt can be overwhelming. The lack of enthusiasm or encouragement from those around us can really take the wind out of our sails, especially when it seems so automatic for others with traditional careers. And being a successful young student such as yourself who got into tough schools like Berkeley (I failed out of UCLA years ago so I know how tough Berkeley is), the unfamiliar taste of institutional rejection and people who doubt you can be especially painful to your confidence. But as we wake up to a more accurate realization that there really are many paths forward to a successful and meaningful career in this, the less our belief in ourselves will depend on what some admissions committee randomly decided that cycle. We just have to accept that we will face more rejections, even beyond school, where more than just our confidence is at stake (i.e. money haha). We're going to feel doubt and heartbreak between our joys and successes. The most successful people are always saying this exact same thing now during interviews or podcasts. The feeling or perception of the "inevitability" of our success is a luxury we simply won't have like other disciplines until we're actually finally making movies, and even then the battle isn't over. I think as we mature we just learn how to deal with it better. God knows if I was going through this process in my early 20s I would have been a complete wreck. But years down the line as you're giving an interview about your latest successful film, you might mention your past rejections and failures as just small footnotes in history, which will A) cause the general public to marvel at your determination and more importantly B) it will give heart to fellow aspiring artists who are struggling with external and internal roadblocks. That's what Spielberg, Nolan, Feige, and other greats are always doing when they deliberately peel back the veneer of "inevitable success" to reveal their rejections and failures for the world to see. It's up to us to keep it real and pay it forward when our time comes.

P.S. Whether you listen to podcasts or not, Scriptnotes has got to be the most important thing for any aspiring screenwriter to listen to religiously every week. Such a wealth of wisdom from the co-hosts (both successful screenwriters/TV writers) and their prominent interview guests, on topics ranging from crafting story and character to navigating the business of the industry as a creative.

this was amazing honestly thank u for writing this....

i wish i could respond with equal eloquence and compassion but for now i’ll just keep thanking u for grounding me and easing my angst so thank u thank u thank u (and i definitely will check out that podcast!!!) ??

 

[Alfie]

Dear Diana,

I empathize with you. I’m Nigerian and my dad is a doctor, my mom is a nurse and my younger sister is getting a PhD is global health at NYU so I come from a family of medics and I understand the pressure. I went to medical school and practiced for a year before I decided to go to grad school for acting. I just graduated and am now applying to grad school for writing. In my ideal world, I want to be an actor, writer, creator and I feel like these are the steps that I need but as an actor, I want to tell you that the feeling of rejection doesn’t stop hurting. When I look on the Hollywood reporter and see projects I auditioned for an almost got get picked up, it hurts even more. I suspect it will be the same way when I graduate as a writer. My parents and family still worry that I keep majoring in unemployment especially when I have a medical degree. My point is it never stops, it’s the career we chose. A career that does very little to love us back. A career where our success is vindication. Rejection hurts. But even when it hurts us in a thousand different ways, that doesn’t mean we are not good. Sometimes, good things take time, and when it does happen, Imagine the appreciation, imagine the stories we’d tell.

 

[oliviaaa]

wow... i feel this whole thread 100%. i'm applying for undergrad which is cool because i'm glad i have the ability to pursue screenwriting straight out of high school but MAN, people can be extremely judgemental. i definitely relate to your sentiment of not living up to peoples' expectations as both my parents are lawyers and my brother is STEM focused and super smart. although i'm a good student it seems that when i tell people i'm majoring in screenwriting it's like they hear "oh so i'm gonna be living in a cardboard box" and write me off as not serious about my future. i also love when i tell people i applied to USC or NYU for screenwriting and they say "oh! those are competitive schools but it's probably easier to get in for arts majors" ahhhh! it's pretty much the opposite! all my top programs are like 5% acceptance rates but people really don't know the struggle of putting together a regular application plus 10 billion portfolio supplements. anyway, good to know that i'm not alone in these feelings! it just makes me want to succeed and prove them wrong even more

 

[dorkydiana]

Dear Diana,

I empathize with you. I’m Nigerian and my dad is a doctor, my mom is a nurse and my younger sister is getting a PhD is global health at NYU so I come from a family of medics and I understand the pressure. I went to medical school and practiced for a year before I decided to go to grad school for acting. I just graduated and am now applying to grad school for writing. In my ideal world, I want to be an actor, writer, creator and I feel like these are the steps that I need but as an actor, I want to tell you that the feeling of rejection doesn’t stop hurting. When I look on the Hollywood reporter and see projects I auditioned for an almost got get picked up, it hurts even more. I suspect it will be the same way when I graduate as a writer. My parents and family still worry that I keep majoring in unemployment especially when I have a medical degree. My point is it never stops, it’s the career we chose. A career that does very little to love us back. A career where our success is vindication. Rejection hurts. But even when it hurts us in a thousand different ways, that doesn’t mean we are not good. Sometimes, good things take time, and when it does happen, Imagine the appreciation, imagine the stories we’d tell.

oh alfie thank u for posting this i wish u all the success in the world...and judging by this post u seem like a hard working, determined, and talented person...i’m rooting for u and wish u all the best

 

[dorkydiana]

feeling extra garbage today hahahahaha like not garbage per se? but more so like embarrassment, sadness, hopelessness, pain, disappointment....so yeah i guess garbage then hA oh man—

no but this is fine, thankfully i applied to other schools this year so i have potential backups (emphasis on potential bc i haven’t heard from them either LOL) but yeah wow this was a shitty way to start my monday last year was bad i spent a whole two months crying myself to sleep hahahaha this year it was just a silent tear rolling down my cheek and then silent staring at my window as i stayed up and watched the sun rise....i definitely won’t give up tho....if i don’t get in anywhere then i will try one more time....but u guys have no idea how miserable i’ll be....i literally hate living here, going to this job that brings me no happiness, being surrounded with people who have literally nothing in common with u...i literally feel lonely, lost, and out of place when i’m here...and i really need to get out....if i’m not a step closer to achieving my dreams this time next year then...i’ll probably go insane haha oh man....

 

[Chris W]

It's not over yet. The interview we have coming out soon with @USCSCAAlumni/Faculty should really inspire you. It inspired me and I've been working here for 20 years.

 

[Chris W]

And I don't think acceptances have stopped going out btw.

 

[sarahkwUT]

And I don't think acceptances have stopped going out btw.

My acceptance letter was dated for 2/29/2020, showed up in the portal sometime after 11PM EST last night, and I saw it this AM. I still haven't gotten an email from them, but I've definitely checked again to make sure it was actually there lol. Don't give up yet, friends! If stalking the forums told me anything, it's that admissions can roll on for days.

 

[Alfie]

What city are you in?

feeling extra garbage today hahahahaha like not garbage per se? but more so like embarrassment, sadness, hopelessness, pain, disappointment....so yeah i guess garbage then hA oh man—View attachment 1642View attachment 1643
no but this is fine, thankfully i applied to other schools this year so i have potential backups (emphasis on potential bc i haven’t heard from them either LOL) but yeah wow this was a shitty way to start my monday last year was bad i spent a whole two months crying myself to sleep hahahaha this year it was just a silent tear rolling down my cheek and then silent staring at my window as i stayed up and watched the sun rise....i definitely won’t give up tho....if i don’t get in anywhere then i will try one more time....but u guys have no idea how miserable i’ll be....i literally hate living here, going to this job that brings me no happiness, being surrounded with people who have literally nothing in common with u...i literally feel lonely, lost, and out of place when i’m here...and i really need to get out....if i’m not a step closer to achieving my dreams this time next year then...i’ll probably go insane haha oh man....View attachment 1644

 

[dorkydiana]

What city are you in?

i’m from norcal, the bay area! aka the worst place for a creative mind to be in....this is the place to come to when u want to live a life like a mindless robot and work in the god awful tech business it’s like in fairly odd parents and the bay area is pixies inc.

i’m very miserable here hahahaha but we got great weather and amazing food

 

[Alfie]

Check your messages.

i’m from norcal, the bay area! aka the worst place for a creative mind to be in....this is the place to come to when u want to live a life like a mindless robot and work in the god awful tech business it’s like in fairly odd parents and the bay area is pixies inc. View attachment 1645
i’m very miserable here hahahaha but we got great weather and amazing food

 

[JoanCrawford]

USC is just the first of many schools posting their decisions, and they, themselves, haven't even finished posting their admittances. I like to call this application hullabaloo March Madness, because all of the emotions build up this month with the acceptances and denials. It's hard not being in control of this stuff--like hell, I am damn nervous. Just know that you'll have a clearer picture of where your future is going by the end of the month. You have everything to gain with applying to graduate school and nothing to lose (except app fees)--that's the beauty of it.

Don't lose sight of why you go through all of this trouble. You are a writer. Rejections and opinions can't stop you from writing. They may bring doubts, but the only entity that can stop you from becoming a writer is yourself. Write and write again, even if it sucks and especially when it's good. Write to feel, write to achieve, write to write.

If you want some work workshopped, I'm happy to give feedback--to take your mind off of this March Madness.