AFI 2019 Screenwriting

[micjagguar]

Do you guys think it helps still in the first couple years out with getting read and getting your work (writing specifically) out there? If so how much or what are the better avenues? (Other than contests/fellowships)

as far as getting read in the beginning... honestly, placing high in a big contest (nicholl, austin, etc.) is way more likely to get your work in front of the people who will sign you. i think the only thing going to a top film school will get you is a possible personal connection with the person reading your script. if you went to the same school as the intern or executive assistant reading your script for their boss, they'd probably be more likely to pass your script along to them. however, what it comes down to is quality!! the person who's considering you or your work is NOT going to look at your resume first. they're going to look at your script. then they'll move on to the resume.

overall, going to these schools puts you forever in a group with other talented filmmakers trying to break into the industry, and alumni who are currently working in it. these people bring each other up because of this connection. but it comes down to the quality of your material. if your material isn't great, the alumni won't recommend you for something just because you went to the same school as them. and you wouldn't ever NOT be recommended for something just because you went to a different school than the person who can give you a job.

not sure if this all makes sense, but this is just what i've observed over time

 

[Chris W]

No one cares. Trust me.

In my 18 years of working in this town NO ONE has EVER asked where I went to film school besides in casual conversation long after I've been hired.

It isn't even in my resume.

 

[micjagguar]

In my 18 years of working in this town NO ONE has EVER asked where I went to film school besides in casual conversation long after I've been hired.

It isn't even in my resume.

this too!!!! i've never had anyone ask me if/where i went to school. you have to remember, like at least 70% of the people currently working in film did not go to film school. it's probably higher than 70% actually lol

 

[Septopus7]

I just want to clarify when I discussed the whole point about USC vs. AFI name recognition, I was specifically pointing out the influence of the name OUTSIDE of the film industry, or at least the "creative" part of it. I know the relationship between that and school in general is complicated. But that's rather my point: if I'm applying for like a copy writer job or something to pay the bills, putting down I have a MFA from AFI isn't going to say much, because AFI is something very much specific to the film industry, and the film industry only. Saying I have an MFA from USC is impressive right off the bat.

Additionally, @micjagguar, you bring up the networking aspect, and how the only leg up is how that might give you a personal connection with the person doing the hiring. That is true. So my argument is with an alumni network in the hundreds of thousands like USC, the likelihood of that happening compared to the tens of thousands from AFI (ALL working in film, or at least trying to, mind you) is much higher.

Once again, none of this is meant to be a slam against AFI. It's a great school with a great alumni network, and I'll likely be going there. But in the pros/cons chart for the two, "larger, more diverse alumni network" is definetly on USC's side.

 

[micjagguar]

I just want to clarify when I discussed the whole point about USC vs. AFI name recognition, I was specifically pointing out the influence of the name OUTSIDE of the film industry, or at least the "creative" part of it. I know the relationship between that and school in general is complicated. But that's rather my point: if I'm applying for like a copy writer job or something to pay the bills, putting down I have a MFA from AFI isn't going to say much, because AFI is something very much specific to the film industry, and the film industry only. Saying I have an MFA from USC is impressive right off the bat.

Additionally, @micjagguar, you bring up the networking aspect, and how the only leg up is how that might give you a personal connection with the person doing the hiring. That is true. So my argument is with an alumni network in the hundreds of thousands like USC, the likelihood of that happening compared to the tens of thousands from AFI (ALL working in film, or at least trying to, mind you) is much higher.

Once again, none of this is meant to be a slam against AFI. It's a great school with a great alumni network, and I'll likely be going there. But in the pros/cons chart for the two, "larger, more diverse alumni network" is definetly on there.

okay, i see what you're saying now. so my advice there would be... if you're going for a non-film related job, then USC would be the better choice because, like you said, the name itself would mean more than AFI outside of the film or creative writing world. but there are plenty of entry-level jobs and paid internships within the film industry that you are pretty likely to get while attending either school. if you're looking to get a job as a script reader for a contest/studio/agent/manager, both schools are 100% okay.

i also agree with you about USC having a larger alumni network. but another thing to consider is this: you don't know who you're going to be going to school with. the person sitting next to you at AFI could be the next spielberg. what if the next big netflix show is created by a group of recent AFI grads, or even the people in your class? you honestly never know who is going to come out of what school, and there are of course successful people from all of them. but just because george lucas went to USC doesn't mean you'll ever work with him or that you will be as successful as him. going to any of these schools gives you connections to other filmmakers, but there's no guarantee you'll get a job just because of the school you went to.

hope none of this sounds harsh or anything! i know this decision is a tough one to make. sometimes it's not so fun to have such great options to choose from lol

 

[BuddernScotch]

in fact, 99% of the writers i work with who are signed to agents and/or managers did NOT go to film school. and on top of that, most of the executives, managers, and agents i work with also didn't go to film school. the ones who did go went to schools listed in the top 10, but the differences in rank never matter (as far as relationships with other filmmakers and success in the industry goes). honestly. so if your worry is being looked down on for going to one school over another, it's truly nothing to worry about.

Really hoped it was this way and I'm so glad I applied to more schools this year. May I ask how those without film school got their foot in the door/noticed and signed? (Other than placing in notable contests/internships?)

Also this discussion is AMAZING and such a valuable resource to those that will come after us. <3

 

[micjagguar]

Really hoped it was this way and I'm so glad I applied to more schools this year. May I ask how those without film school got their foot in the door/noticed and signed?

like i said earlier, placing in a big contest is one of the most likely ways for screenwriters to get their work in front of people who will ultimately give them a job. outside of this, there are websites that can specifically put writers in contact with agents/managers/executives (think the blacklist), fellowships that prepare writers for tv shows (think NBC writers on the verge, WB writers workshop, nickelodeon fellowship, etc), and really just knowing someone who can get your work read by the right people. the last one is obviously the most difficult, but going to a film school makes it much easier.

 

[BuddernScotch]

like i said earlier, placing in a big contest is one of the most likely ways for screenwriters to get their work in front of people who will ultimately give them a job. outside of this, there are websites that can specifically put writers in contact with agents/managers/executives (think the blacklist), fellowships that prepare writers for tv shows (think NBC writers on the verge, WB writers workshop, nickelodeon fellowship, etc), and really just knowing someone who can get your work read by the right people. the last one is obviously the most difficult, but going to a film school makes it much easier.

Alright I'm getting a more complete picture now. For so many years I thought the film business was like a beautiful gourmet pastry shop and I was a poor homeless chimney sweep gal wanting in. I was unaware of all these contests and fellowships because I found so many online and some were ahem scams.. now I see the industry just a smidge clearer and things seem possible with enough hard work and perserverance. Thank you for the quick reply!

 

[micjagguar]

things seem possible with enough hard work and perserverance.

that's exactly how to look at it. it's not impossible to break in, and hard work and talent will be recognized no matter how long it takes.

also, yes, a lot of screenwriting contests are total scams and not worth submitting to. i may make a separate thread later with the info i know about these contests.

 

[BuddernScotch]

that's exactly how to look at it. it's not impossible to break in, and hard work and talent will be recognized no matter how long it takes.

also, yes, a lot of screenwriting contests are total scams and not worth submitting to. i may make a separate thread later with the info i know about these contests.

That would be absolutely amazing when you have the time. I'm sure many of us here would be thrilled silly!

 

[Septopus7]

okay, i see what you're saying now. so my advice there would be... if you're going for a non-film related job, then USC would be the better choice because, like you said, the name itself would mean more than AFI outside of the film or creative writing world. but there are plenty of entry-level jobs and paid internships within the film industry that you are pretty likely to get while attending either school. if you're looking to get a job as a script reader for a contest/studio/agent/manager, both schools are 100% okay.

i also agree with you about USC having a larger alumni network. but another thing to consider is this: you don't know who you're going to be going to school with. the person sitting next to you at AFI could be the next spielberg. what if the next big netflix show is created by a group of recent AFI grads, or even the people in your class? you honestly never know who is going to come out of what school, and there are of course successful people from all of them. but just because george lucas went to USC doesn't mean you'll ever work with him or that you will be as successful as him. going to any of these schools gives you connections to other filmmakers, but there's no guarantee you'll get a job just because of the school you went to.

hope none of this sounds harsh or anything! i know this decision is a tough one to make. sometimes it's not so fun to have such great options to choose from lol

Oh no, you're completely fine, and this has been a good chat! If anything, I'm worried I'm sounding too harsh to a school that is by all accounts wonderful. I'm not really trying to defend a point or anything, so I hope I'm not sounding too defensive here...ah, the joys of conversing through text on the internet!

Anyways, you bring up a good point that is 100% the main takeaway from this post, and this thread, and this forum, and this industry, and life in general -- you never know. You never can. And that's as frustrating as it is exciting. As a neurotic sack of junk I just tend to over prepare, and always have back up plans. Which I guess is where I'm coming from with USC -- I'm not at all hoping or aiming for a job outside the film industry after grad school, not if I can help it. But if I get dealt a bad deck of cards and luck/timing does not land on my side, then it would be nice to have other options that my degree could potentially adopt.

That logic is one of the reasons why I got a duel degree in undergrad -- as much as I wanted to study film, I knew I needed something else in my deck. I don't really like the term "fallback," but I guess alternate career path, as it were. And considering I have my current job solely because of my journalism degree, I don't regret it in the slightest. Obviously there's no such thing as a graduate double major (that's the whole point!), but USC still seems like it would open more tangential doors outside of film, if it ever came to that. Which I hope it won't, but still. Once again: neurotic sack of junk.

 

[Chris W]

USC still seems like it would open more tangential doors outside of film, if it ever came to that.

What doors? Are you seriously thinking of turning down a full ride to AFI?

Did USC offer any money?

Reducing debt burden out of school will seriously give you more options as well.

 

[Lifeisnoholiday]

What doors? Are you seriously thinking of turning down a full ride to AFI?

Did USC offer any money?

Reducing debt burden out of school will seriously give you more options as well.

I second this. Getting a degree from one of top 3 schools in the world for free would be a no-brainer for me, not to mention living your life without repaying that debt.

 

[WriterK90]

@Septopus7 Just to chime in as well, I feel your B.A in Journalism will open more doors outside of the industry than either degree in Screenwriting. That's why I always say it's good to major in something different for your B.A. as a fall back plan. After working so hard and getting into great schools, the less debt possible will open more doors than the school your MFA is from. And if you have to take a job outside of the industry, you already have that covered with your B.A. I'm similar with my Communications degree. It's a very flexible fall back degree that meets the requirements of a lot of different jobs. I don't plan on my MFA opening any doors except teaching on the college level. Anything else, I can get from my B.A. I have seen debt literally cripple people and stop them from pursuing what they really want because they couldn't afford to. It's one thing to invest into your future with loans because that's your only option, but seriously, if the amount you'll owe is significant at USC over AFI, the doors you are hoping for are likely not worth the debt. Especially when you want to work in the industry and there's a lot of options there even if they aren't ideal at times.

 

[StarChild]

that's exactly how to look at it. it's not impossible to break in, and hard work and talent will be recognized no matter how long it takes.

also, yes, a lot of screenwriting contests are total scams and not worth submitting to. i may make a separate thread later with the info i know about these contests.

Yes I want in and can pitch in some thoughts!

 

[Septopus7]

What doors? Are you seriously thinking of turning down a full ride to AFI?

Did USC offer any money?

Reducing debt burden out of school will seriously give you more options as well.

To quote from our New Fresh Prince of Agrabah: Oh hell naw. Once again, let me clarify -- I danced around the subject due to A) not wanting to take over this thread entirely with my ramblings, which I guess I kinda failed at and B) previously typing these comments on my phone, where I was trying not to type out novels so the tip of my fingers wouldn't die. But because it might be causing some confusion (and now I'm in front of my computer), let me once again state: I'm 98% going to accept AFI's offer, and be absolutely thrilled to do it. The only reason I leave the 2% open is because I actually haven't heard back ANYTHING from USC, so there's still a possibility they could offer me a scholarship too at some point. When I contacted them last week (pre AFI's big offer even being in the picture), they said that all scholarship information would be sent out by the end of this week (the 22nd). So there's still a chance they could award me something as well...frankly I doubt it could be anything as high as AFI's, but I didn't expect AFI to offer me that much either, so what the hell do I know?

The only reason I was presenting my pro-USC arguments was to answer the initial question that kicked this off, from @Dean, about what I thought USC was "better" at. The things I mentioned are what I personal believe, and fueled on why it was my number one choice for many years. But NONE of those reasons can match the lure that is little debt coming out of grad school. Nothing really can. Frankly not just because money talks but because, also, if USC offers me no assistance whatsoever, what does that say about how much they want me? Well this is one of those "it's a thrill just to be nominated" type things, AFI offering me what they did, and basically getting nothing out of my attendance to the school in the process, is a humbling honor. It shows that they really want me, and see some sort of potential in me. Unless USC shows the same enthusiasm for my candidacy, it's going to be AFI all the way.

But the emotions I have around it are strange, and clearly I'm still trying to work them out in the aftermath. Since the initial shock has run through (and, frankly, the bit of grief I felt for most likely saying no to USC, something I never dreamed in a million years I would do), I'm looking on this situation with a LOT more enthusiasm. I will be absolutely thrilled for the insane opportunity presented to me. I simply can't take it for granted, and won't take it for granted.

 

[BuddernScotch]

To quote from our New Fresh Prince of Agrabah: Oh hell naw. Once again, let me clarify -- I danced around the subject due to A) not wanting to take over this thread entirely with my ramblings, which I guess I kinda failed at and B) previously typing these comments on my phone, where I was trying not to type out novels so the tip of my fingers wouldn't die. But because it might be causing some confusion (and now I'm in front of my computer), let me once again state: I'm 98% going to accept AFI's offer, and be absolutely thrilled to do it. The only reason I leave the 2% open is because I actually haven't heard back ANYTHING from USC, so there's still a possibility they could offer me a scholarship too at some point. When I contacted them last week (pre AFI's big offer even being in the picture), they said that all scholarship information would be sent out by the end of this week (the 22nd). So there's still a chance they could award me something as well...frankly I doubt it could be anything as high as AFI's, but I didn't expect AFI to offer me that much either, so what the hell do I know?

The only reason I was presenting my pro-USC arguments was to answer the initial question that kicked this off, from @Dean, about what I thought USC was "better" at. The things I mentioned are what I personal believe, and fueled on why it was my number one choice for many years. But NONE of those reasons can match the lure that is little debt coming out of grad school. Nothing really can. Frankly not just because money talks but because, also, if USC offers me no assistance whatsoever, what does that say about how much they want me? Well this is one of those "it's a thrill just to be nominated" type things, AFI offering me what they did, and basically getting nothing out of my attendance to the school in the process, is a humbling honor. It shows that they really want me, and see some sort of potential in me. Unless USC shows the same enthusiasm for my candidacy, it's going to be AFI all the way.

But the emotions I have around it are strange, and clearly I'm still trying to work them out in the aftermath. Since the initial shock has run through (and, frankly, the bit of grief I felt for most likely saying no to USC, something I never dreamed in a million years I would do), I'm looking on this situation with a LOT more enthusiasm. I will be absolutely thrilled for the insane opportunity presented to me. I simply can't take it for granted, and won't take it for granted.

I feel you, it's hard to let go of something you had set your mind on for so long. Literally story of my life (10 yrs of having USC in my lil heart). But I think we and fellow posters have expanded our views with each other's help, and your posts are you working through this, which I'm sure forumn lurkers would find very useful.

And anyways I have a feeling you'll do just fine either way

 

[Isabellagrcia]

Anyone know the process of applying to scholarships the 2nd year of attending? Is it the same as our initial application?

 

[StarChild]

Anyone know the process of applying to scholarships the 2nd year of attending? Is it the same as our initial application?

No idea. :/ great question though!

 

[StarChild]

Anyone have any figures on how likely you are to be asked to return to AFI’s second year or not?